How to Build Trust in the Construction Industry

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Unknown
Oh, hey. Oh!

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Unknown
Oh!

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Speaker 2
Welcome to the Blue Collar Startup, the podcast where hard work meets big ideas. This is your home for real talk, real stories and real strategies from the front lines of life in the business of the trades. I’m one of your hosts, Mike Nelson from Five Towers Media.

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Speaker 3
And I’m your co-host, Derek Foster from Daigle Clinic Systems.

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Speaker 1
Yeah. Let’s get to work. Let’s get to work. What’s up D how are we doing, man?

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Speaker 3
I’m good. It’s, feels like wintertime again here in upstate New York. We’re just talking about how it was so nice last week, and here we are. But, you know, just just continuing the push, where we’re fortunate to be super busy, on our end and a little marketing event that I went to a networking event, the Albany Business Review.

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Speaker 3
Shout out to those guys. They had a, a breakfast where they brought together a bunch of leaders from local schools and universities, and, it was a really good event. So, met some good people there. We had scrubby the robot out running around, so I, turned some heads. Yeah, it was it was good.

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Speaker 3
So, Yeah. Super busy man. How about on your end?

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Speaker 2
Yeah, same. You know, we’re, we’re trying to turn the aircraft carrier right now, which is a long, slow turn. It feels like. But, you know, just I integration and everything that we’re doing right now, and it’s really, you know, as we’ve talked before in the show, it’s it’s changing things very quickly. You know, just last week, anthropic came out with an integration with Canva.

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Speaker 2
So now you can prompt through, through Claude and design through Canva. And it all happens with the strokes of the key and which, again, is going to continue to.

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Speaker 1
Pummel.

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Speaker 2
The graphic design portion of what we do. But, you know, we got we got a good plan, and we’re, we’re fighting through it. So it’s exciting.

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Speaker 3
And I don’t know, I don’t know how you keep up with all of it. There’s so many changes going on. So, I give you a lot of credit, and, you know, I know your team is doing a fantastic job with staying up to up to date with all of that.

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Speaker 2
It’s pretty well, I can tell you without an exaggeration. I’m reading for two hours a day, every day. Different emails, newsletters online. Like just trying to keep up with it all and make sure that we, you know, we’re keeping our clients in the best, best place possible with all the changes. So they’re not wasting money on strategies just aren’t working so well.

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Speaker 3
I don’t know if you heard. It’s just impressive. There was a, a half marathon, I believe it was a Beijing. And, a robot ran the entire race and, completed it in 50 minutes and broke the world record. So crushed it. Interesting stuff.

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Speaker 2
Crushed it. And so I never have to outrun any robots there.

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Speaker 2
Except for maybe, you know, you pilots.

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Speaker 3
It chases you. What do you do? You can’t outrun it.

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Speaker 2
So, Yeah, I don’t know. Hopefully no one ever has to find that out. Well, let’s get to our guest here. Man, I’m very excited about, our guests today. And, you know, I’ll just kind of we we put the other quick intro. Hopefully it’s accurate. Denver went in, built Dagan Construction from a concrete start up in 2007 into a self performing industrial, municipal and water contractor doing work for TSMC, Honeywell and cities across Arizona.

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Speaker 2
Nearly two decades of growth anchored in an echelon front leadership culture. He’s a rare founder who will put make a lot of money, which, by the way, I love this. He’ll make a lot of money right on his mission statement and meant it as a people first thing. Welcome to the show, Denver.

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Speaker 1
No, thanks. I’m glad to be here with you all and excited, for our conversation today. Yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 2
And I know we’re going to talk about it later, but I really do love the fact of how you use make a lot of money, as a people first ideal, and just and throwing it right out there. I mean, obviously, you know, businesses, we’ve got to make money to keep the machine going. But I love it.

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Speaker 2
I can’t wait to talk about it, man.

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Speaker 1
So. Yeah.

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Speaker 2
So, and I know and, you know, we should probably bring it up to say I did ask before the show. And I just think it’s an interesting piece of information for our listeners. You know, last week we had, Scott senior, Scott Junior on the show from SSL plumbing, and they were talking about some of the similar things that we’re going to talk about today as far as the work that you guys are doing with extreme ownership, with the the team at Echelon front.

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Speaker 2
But also the, the, the, the sidekick to it is that that iOS and, you know, I know we’re not we’re not promoting iOS. We don’t get any checks from iOS. They are, you know, feel free to send them if they would like to. But, you talked a little bit about that. So can we just, real quick just jump into the iOS stuff and how you use those two things in tandem?

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Speaker 2
I know I’m no, I’m jumping off the main question set, but yeah.

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Speaker 1
Yeah. No problem. Yeah. So, I actually know, Scott, it’s an issue with SSL, LLC. Really. Well, and we’ve networked a lot, through our echelon front, staff in, leadership groups and, and, it was actually, him that introduced us to, iOS and, and got us started. We used the same implementer that that he was using.

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Speaker 1
And, it’s made a big difference for us as we’ve, used the iOS tools, in combination with, with, the leadership stuff that, we’ve, we’ve learned from echelon front, understanding the visionary, role and the integrator role and, has really, helped the mental health of, of our team, where where we, we we see that we’re not crazy.

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Speaker 1
We actually are wired differently. And, and there’s a place for the visionary, and there’s a place for, the integrator. Yeah. Yeah.

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Speaker 2
It’s it’s wild because I am constantly, exposed to working with networking with organizations that use iOS as a business tool very effectively. And now more and more, being exposed to teams that are using, echelon front and the extreme ownership, which actually, between listening, preparing for this show and listening to some of the stuff that you’ve got out there on the internet with other podcasts and in writing and, and the episode last week I started reading, Extreme Ownership again over the weekend.

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Speaker 2
So I’m excited diving back into that for I think this might be the second time I read it and, that’s great stuff. So I’m looking forward to digging into some of that today with you.

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Speaker 2
So let’s get to, the main question set here, guys.

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Speaker 2
You know, I think this is a really important question. We ask it quite often with people making the jump right from working somewhere into being their own person, doing their own thing. You know, and I know that, you know, you’ve told the your founding story on a few other shows, and I didn’t want to get too much back into that, bit by bit.

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Speaker 2
But, you know, the, the point of it all and maybe talk about a little bit about how you got started as well or not completely, you know, giving some, exposure to that. But you left the steady corporate paycheck in early 2007 to start your company, which, you know, that was a tough time for the economy, housing construction.

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Speaker 2
Not exactly, a booming market in a lot of places in the country. Take us inside. The week before you gave your notice that the job that you had. Right. That’s that quote unquote safe paycheck. And what was honest conversation that you were having with yourself, your family, you know, and then, of course, the part that gets left out a lot, is that first 90 days after you started your business and you no longer had the safety of a paycheck coming, you know, you got a family.

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Speaker 2
I’m assuming a mortgage, maybe a blank calendar. Or maybe it was packed. I don’t know, but what did those three months actually look like day to day for you?

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Speaker 1
It was, it was. Honestly, it’s pretty scary. Yeah. I don’t know, kind of kind of a scary time. I, I, I didn’t really plan on making the jump. I didn’t really plan on starting a construction company. It really wasn’t something that, was a vision of mine. I grew up on a cattle ranch.

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Speaker 1
My dad was trying to convince me to go back to. To be part of the family business. Yeah. And and, it just the, you know, things just aligned where, there was there was, our, our team had performed very, very well, the previous year. And then the economy changed and, there was some bureaucracy in the big corporate company I was working for that, prevented us from preventing me from being able to take care of my guys.

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Speaker 1
You know, I was able to find other work to keep them busy, and, my, my bosses, didn’t want to do that. It didn’t align with their objectives. And, and, you know, my my boss called me in to his office one day and said, hey, what you’re doing to to to keep your guys busy and to get them to, to to to, keep work for them, doesn’t work for us.

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Speaker 1
I had found work within our own company working for our land development, company doing, sidewalks and carbon gutter and catch basins and that kind of stuff. Our, our division was supposed to do house labs. The, the land development department wasn’t compensating our house lab department for the work that we were doing. And he said, you got to lay everybody off.

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Speaker 1
And, and, I was really close to my guys. They had busted their butts. They were super loyal. They were very hard workers. They had they had to innovate in an adapted to do a different type of work that they weren’t used to doing. And, and, and just right there, it was kind of an emotional reaction. But but I put my keys and my phone on his desk and I said, you know, you got to lay them off.

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Speaker 1
I don’t work here anymore. And I didn’t really have a plan. You know, I wasn’t anticipating starting my own company. And when I went back to to tell my people that I’d quit, I’d actually called one of my superintendents to come pick me up because I left my truck there at the yard. He came and picked me up, and we went back to our offsite office and, and, you know, not really knowing what we were going to do, talk to my friend.

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Speaker 1
That was the land development guy that hooked us up with some work and and said, hey, we’re not going to do your work anymore. Your department is not paying my department, for the work we’re doing for you. And, and, and I just quit, and, he’s the one that said, well, what are you going to do now?

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Speaker 1
And I was like, I don’t know. And he’s like, well, I got some work. Looks like you’re going to have some guys. And, I said, I don’t have any money. And, and, I was like, I can’t even I, you know, I wouldn’t be able to do payroll and get all our tools and equipment and everything we would need.

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Speaker 1
And, and we were able to work some stuff out where I could, you know, invoice and get paid quickly to, like, start some cash flow. And, that just kind of opened the door to the possibility. I went home that night, talked to my wife. She she had, some money squirreled away in her and a savings account that, you know, was, was her safety net.

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Speaker 1
And, and we decided we decided, to, take care of our guys and, and, and and to go down that road of of of, starting, starting the construction company and, and trying to make a go of it, because I had a bunch of guys that I loved and, and, I felt like if I had them on my team, we could make something happen, and, those those.

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Speaker 1
I started the first day with ten guys, so, so so there wasn’t a lot of extra time, trying to trying to figure out, you know, how to estimate how to how to how to get the materials, how to set up accounts with vendors, how to how to plan the work, how to be the superintendent, the project manager, and the and, get everything else done.

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Speaker 1
Was was a pretty busy, busy time because we started out, you know, kind of hit the hitting the ground running. Yeah.

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Speaker 2
That’s pretty wild man. Right. But, you know, out of the frying pan into the fire as they say, right?

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Speaker 1
Yeah.

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Speaker 3
Oh about Denver, one question that I have and you know it I went through it as well. But how did you handle those situations where you had no idea how what that solution was going to be? And you kind of figure it out as you go along. How did you confront those situations and work through them?

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Speaker 1
Had I had a bunch of guys on my team that I trusted. So, you know, we started a concrete company. I had about a year’s worth of managing guys doing concrete. Never actually done concrete myself. And so I trusted them on a lot of the technical stuff of figuring out, like, how we’re going to do the different type of work.

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Speaker 1
But then. But then, I went, I went back to, you know, the people were working for and had great relationships with them and said, hey, you know what? We’re trying I’m trying to figure this out. I don’t really know what we’re doing. I don’t really know how to create an estimate for this, type of work.

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Speaker 1
I want to take care of you. I hope you can take care of me. Like. Like how do we how do we work together on this? And I got a lot of coaching and a lot of advice from the people we were working for that wanted us to be successful.

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Speaker 1
Personally. Yeah, that is super cool.

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Speaker 2
That’s, that’s.

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Speaker 3
In You Shall receive, right?

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Speaker 2
Yeah. Right. Like, and it’s funny not to go back an episode, but like Scott kind of had a similar thing where he just had good relationships with people and, and was, you know, basically ask for their help, you know, and they were willing to do it. I think that’s amazing.

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Speaker 1
If he’s the ultimate example of relationship building and networking and, you know, I, I look up to him and I call him for advice all the time on how to do a better job.

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Speaker 2
You know, I retro, you know, looking back at it, do you is there like, advice that you would give to someone, you know, a tradesperson with a young family, you know, and they’re thinking about making that leap? As you look at the way your situation unfolded, what would you tell someone in similar situation or someone that’s thinking about making that leap?

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Speaker 1
I think you have to step back and say, why do I want to do this? What’s my why? And, and then really think about is, is, is making this leap really going to help me accomplish that or is it not? You know, I think so. Some people want to work for themselves because they want freedom or because they want to make a ton of money or because, they just don’t want to have a boss.

00;16;09;26 – 00;16;45;28
Speaker 1
But they don’t realize the sacrifice that it’s going to take to be able to make it work. And, and, if you have the right way, then you’re going to make it through all the hard times and you’re going to make it through, the times when you want to give up and quit, you’re going to you’re going to sacrifice, you know, a lot of the things that you value a lot, in order to, to be able to, you know, make it through and make it work at the end.

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Speaker 1
And, and if you don’t have the right way, you’re not going to be willing to do that and you’re not going to make it.

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Speaker 2
Not not as much freedom and not as much money, especially in the beginning as people think gray.

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Speaker 1
Matter at all know. All right.

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Speaker 2
So I want to go back to, the make a lot of money, you know, the mission statement that nobody else writes as honestly as you have it, it’s one of the I just I absolutely love it. It’s a great statement. It really is on your about page, your mission is three lines grow and develop. Our people make our customers love us, make a lot of money.

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Speaker 2
So everybody wins, right. What’s amazing. And most companies like we said we don’t want to put they’ll put the first two in a brochure. But that third one is only spoken in internally right behind closed doors. But you got it right on the home page.

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Speaker 2
Why was it important to name the money part out loud? And how does that help to shape the culture on the job site for you?

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Speaker 1
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Speaker 2
Why was it important to name the money part out loud? And how does that help to shape the culture on the job site for you?

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Speaker 1
Right. So our our main mission is to grow and develop our people. You know, that’s that’s why we exist. So we can grow and develop our people. But but sometimes people think that that means that we exist so that they can be comfortable. And, and, and and they start, they start forgetting that, well, we actually have to make money for this to work.

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Speaker 1
If we don’t make money, then then we’re not going to be able to make our customers love us. We’re not gonna be able to grow and develop our people. And and, we’ve we’ve always been a very transparent, you know, company with, with our people and what our finances are and where we’re at and, and, my, my, purpose for, for, starting day in construction and growing day in construction and keeping digging, construction and not, not selling out.

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Speaker 1
You know, we got lots of people that are, you know, wanting to wanted to see what my exit is and, and, and, and, and I’m like, no, I’m not going to exit. Like, that’s not why I started the company is is for me to make a lot of money. But but I think having that on our mission statement where everybody realizes that, every person that works here has to provide value, and we have to learn how to provide more value all the time.

00;19;51;24 – 00;20;29;24
Speaker 1
And it’s through providing that value that, that we’re able to get compensated, for the work that we’re doing. And, and that needs to be a core focus for, for what we talk about and what we’re doing. Are we making money? Are we are we are. Do our customers love us? And that’s the fuel that that’s going to help us be able to grow and develop our people is the fuel that’s going to help us, be able to, have the safety and security of, of a job to, to take care of our families to, to be able to create a legacy for ourselves and for our families.

00;20;29;26 – 00;20;36;24
Speaker 1
And and we can’t forget that we got to have the fuel.

00;20;36;27 – 00;20;59;06
Speaker 1
And money’s the fuel. It is. Right. It is. Yeah. And and, you know, I mean, I’m not afraid to go tell my customer, hey, I got to make money, you know? I mean, yeah, we got to be on the same. We got to play on the same field as everybody else, and we can’t. We can’t be. We can’t be way more expensive than everybody else.

00;20;59;08 – 00;21;16;20
Speaker 1
And and still expect to get the job. We have to be competitive, but but at the end of the day, that’s, that’s we have to make money so we can take care of our people. And and if and if we’re not going to make any money, then there’s no reason for us to do the job.

00;21;16;22 – 00;21;38;12
Speaker 2
Sounds like you have a strong set of principles. Like you’re a pretty principled guy, which is it would, you know, seems more, more and more rare these days. Right? The people have principles and they’ll stand by them. So it’s. I think it’s amazing. And I love the fact that you’ve got that right there on the website.

00;21;38;15 – 00;22;05;00
Speaker 2
So let’s talk a little bit about, extreme ownership. Right. And when it actually clicked, you’ve said, on other podcast that you’ve been on that, echelon front has had a huge impact on Dagen. You sat down with Leif Bavin on his show. This stuff works. I know a lot of our audience I hope has read the book.

00;22;05;02 – 00;22;26;14
Speaker 2
If they have not but fewer people have actually installed it into a crew, into a job, into their company. So when we talk about extreme ownership, what was the moment that went from a concept you liked to a tactical change in how you ran jobs? And, would also love to hear about where you feel you fall short.

00;22;26;16 – 00;22;53;06
Speaker 1
Yeah. So, so I, I, about ten years in, maybe even a little less when we started to have, you know, we got through the recession and we started to make money and, and things started to go well, I didn’t know how to. I’d created a very flat organization. I, I didn’t know how to lead.

00;22;53;10 – 00;23;39;06
Speaker 1
I didn’t know how to lead our people. I worked at a big corporate company, but as not as a not as a not as a leader of a of an organization. And I and I didn’t really start it in a construction company where, where I grew up with mentors. And then people had to look up to you that would guide me and, and, and, I, once we started to actually make money, then we started having lots of problems, we started having problems with people with with egos, with, you know, the how how to, I didn’t I started the company because I hated bureaucracy and, and, and, I,

00;23;39;08 – 00;24;06;28
Speaker 1
the, the company that we had all worked for, had had this bureaucracy of, you know, all these rules. And I was like, I don’t like SOPs. I don’t like org charts, and, and, and, and, and and all that stuff started to come back and bite me in the butt when we started growing and, and I didn’t know what to do, and, and I was like, well, I, I’ve always thought about, going back and getting an MBA.

00;24;07;00 – 00;24;35;00
Speaker 1
Getting a master’s degree. I was like, maybe, maybe now’s a good time. I find the answers there. I went back to school, got my MBA, and and one of my one of my close classmates that I that I went to school with was was an ex-Navy Seal, and and, he brought extreme ownership to, to to all of our group projects.

00;24;35;02 – 00;25;04;15
Speaker 1
And that was my introduction to to the, to the book extreme ownership to to the concepts and, and and it was then when I was like, this is, this is what I’m this is kind of what I’ve been looking for is, is, is this leadership model this this fits who I am already, who I want to be, the principles that I believe in, it fits with my my, my leadership model that that I want to have.

00;25;04;20 – 00;25;33;08
Speaker 1
I don’t have the tools yet. I don’t know how to do it, but but but it really clicks and and and then I, I went to, one of the echelon front ft. Is, that Cody Gandy runs, right, right, right after Covid and and, it was it was during that, that training when it hit me and I was like, I want all my people to know this.

00;25;33;08 – 00;26;03;18
Speaker 1
I want all my people to understand this. This is this is the answer, for that that’ll help us be able to get this the stability, the safety, the, the, the direction that we need is by implementing this leadership model throughout our company. And, and I signed, echelon front up to, to come and do, ft. For us, here in Phoenix.

00;26;03;20 – 00;26;33;02
Speaker 1
Right after, right after I had that experience and, and so that was kind of, you know, that that moment, when, when, you know, it clicked when I was like, this is this is the answer. This is what I want. I need to do, the the kind of hit across the head with a two by four was, was, when, you know, I’d kind of gone back to school to figure out how to fix my people.

00;26;33;05 – 00;26;57;00
Speaker 1
You know, I needed to be a better leader so I could learn how to fix my people and the problems that they were creating. And, and, and, and the concept of extreme ownership is every problem you have is your fault. And, and the only way it’s going to and the only way it’s going to change is if you change and if you take ownership of it, and, and and all of a sudden, like I was like, I’m the I’m the problem here.

00;26;57;02 – 00;27;21;07
Speaker 1
I’m, I’m the biggest problem that Dagon Construction has. And and until I change and I learn how to be a better leader, and nobody else is going to change. I have to change. I have to become a better leader. I have to take ownership of of of the behaviors that that I’m seeing that I don’t like, in my team.

00;27;21;10 – 00;27;41;09
Speaker 1
And, and, that was that was when I was like, I’m taking ownership. And then I started taking ownership, and it started working. And so I was like, all right, this stuff works. This is what we’re going to do. As far as.

00;27;41;11 – 00;28;04;23
Speaker 1
The areas that I’m lacking, I still have a long ways to go. I think, and any of the principles, any of the principles, you know, you go to the four laws of combat. You know, I still don’t do as good a job as I need to do it. Building strategic relationships. You know, I can get out there and build better relationships with, with, key, key players in the market with customers.

00;28;04;26 – 00;28;31;28
Speaker 1
I need to get out there better and build build better relationships. I can create better alignment, by expressing expectations. Clearer by by helping set roles clear by by, communicating in a in a much simpler way. On prioritize and execute I, I still struggle to detach sometimes my ego still gets the best of me.

00;28;32;00 – 00;28;55;27
Speaker 1
I still want to see things from my perspective and not understand what other people’s perspective is. And I still make decisions that aren’t aren’t always the best ones. And and I’m still learning how to detach a little bit better. And the biggest one that I struggle with the most is, is the, fourth law of combat, of decentralized command.

00;28;55;29 – 00;29;22;01
Speaker 1
I still have a hard time letting go control. I, I want to empower others, but I still want things done my way, and and it’s really hard. It’s it’s it’s it’s it’s really hard, to to to have that. So, there’s still a lot of growth that needs to happen as far as, really adopting all the principles and getting them the work, you know, the best way possible.

00;29;22;04 – 00;29;35;18
Speaker 1
But I feel like, I’m on the path. My team’s on the path. We’re we’re we’re, trying to improve them. And we’ve made huge improvements over the years.

00;29;35;20 – 00;29;37;19
Speaker 1
Do you?

00;29;37;21 – 00;29;53;16
Speaker 2
All right, one quick question. It so you, your your team is also going to like the Ft is like they’re also working with echelon front, like doing that kind of stuff to develop themselves in that capacity as well.

00;29;53;19 – 00;30;15;27
Speaker 1
Yeah. So it’s it’s something that’s implemented throughout our whole company. And, and I, I actually run I, I’ve, you know, through, through iOS, I’ve, I’ve, you know, we’ve learned that the, the we each need to do those things that, you know, we each have our role. And what are those things that these roles responsible for. You know, I’m the visionary.

00;30;15;29 – 00;30;37;29
Speaker 1
You know, I’m I’m responsible for the vision and the where we’re going and, and and, I’m and one of the things that the, that I do that consumes a lot of my time is leadership development for our team. And and we do we do leadership training once a week where we’re talking about, echelon front principles.

00;30;38;06 – 00;31;12;24
Speaker 1
We’ve adapted them to our own. We’ve taken ownership of it and said, well, these are these are our Dagon principles. Now, these these are our mindsets for victory. This is this is what we believe in. This is what good leadership, looks like, completely aligned, with echelon front. But but, we’ve we’re we’re on our fifth year now of, of, just doing weekly meetings, training, and, and really, trying to get our, our, our whole team on board with these, these leadership principles.

00;31;12;27 – 00;31;21;27
Speaker 1
Also, every problem we have is a leadership problem. And and, as we become better leaders, we’re able to solve our problems better.

00;31;21;29 – 00;31;24;08
Speaker 2
No bad teams, only bad leaders. Right?

00;31;24;10 – 00;31;25;28
Speaker 1
Right. Yeah. So I just.

00;31;25;28 – 00;31;27;25
Speaker 2
Listen to that after this morning. Actually, this.

00;31;27;25 – 00;31;30;05
Speaker 1
Morning, my.

00;31;30;07 – 00;31;57;08
Speaker 2
I, you know, I’m curious too, because when you talk about extreme ownership and like you were saying, like you, you had these problems, but really, or that you felt your team had these problems, but really all every problem you have is yours. Right. Can you just to kind of help, put it in context, you have made me an example you can share with us where, like, you took ownership of the issue and how it changed the problem or how it fixed it.

00;31;57;10 – 00;31;59;24
Speaker 2
I know that might be a hard one, but.

00;31;59;27 – 00;32;13;07
Speaker 1
Yeah. So, you know, a lot of it comes back to, to to, to my own personal behavior, you know, I, I,

00;32;13;09 – 00;32;35;01
Speaker 1
I’m, I’m, I’m a pretty big introvert. I don’t like public speaking. I don’t like even doing these kind of things. I, I don’t like training. I like standing in front of people, and, and, and we had a lot of misalignment of where we’re going and what are we trying to do, and, and, what what what what are our values?

00;32;35;01 – 00;33;03;01
Speaker 1
And how do we make those simple, clear and concise? How do we how do we get new people coming on board to, to to, understand these and be able to own them as their own? And, and, I had to, take ownership and say, well, they’re not I, I’m going to have to train and I’m going to have to teach, and I’m going to have to put myself out there, and I’m going to have to do the things that I don’t actually want to do.

00;33;03;03 – 00;33;31;20
Speaker 1
You know, I if, if, if I could, if I could, if I could just be a project manager and do some estimating the rest of my career, like I would be very comfortable doing that. That’s the funnest part of doing construction. But that’s not where I’m supposed to provide value. If I’m going to step back and say, what is what is it that my team needs and what is it that I need to take ownership, and how do I need to change?

00;33;31;23 – 00;33;56;18
Speaker 1
What are those? What are those activities that only I can do? Then then I step back and take ownership of that and have the discipline to to step forward and do it and come through with it. Then then I’m going to create an environment and I’m going to create stability for my team that they need so that then they can get out there and win.

00;33;56;20 – 00;33;57;18
Speaker 1
More of it.

00;33;57;21 – 00;34;02;19
Speaker 2
Now. So as, as a

00;34;02;21 – 00;34;05;07
Speaker 1
Introvert.

00;34;05;09 – 00;34;31;13
Speaker 2
You know, I’m just curious. It’s so you’ve obviously done a really good job of building trust, with your clients. Right. So Dagan self performed over 16,000 linear feet of 16 inch water main and sewer structures for TSM, TSMC and Phoenix. Huge project. You’ve held the city of Chancellor’s Chandlers joke since 2015. And a private water utility MSA since 2013.

00;34;31;16 – 00;34;42;23
Speaker 2
So as an introvert or really anyone like, how do you, trust that that level, even though you don’t have a big corporate logo behind you, so to speak?

00;34;42;26 – 00;35;06;03
Speaker 1
You perform. Yeah, you come through, you come through on your commitments, you’re open and honest. You don’t hide things from the customer. You you, that’s that’s how you gain trust, right? Is is. Hey, I’m not gonna lie to you. You’re not gonna lie to me. We’re gonna get on the same page. We’re going to talk about hard things.

00;35;06;05 – 00;35;34;23
Speaker 1
And we’re going to come through with our commitments. And, you know, that’s one thing that contractors struggle with, right? They agree to some effort. And then and then there’s always an excuse use of why it can’t happen. And so, if, if you, if, if we can learn how to be contractors that actually come through with our commitments and we actually do what we say we’re going to do, we, we gain a lot of credibility just by doing that.

00;35;34;26 – 00;35;55;13
Speaker 2
Well, yeah, I mean, that’s, I think at every level, right, at every size. I know back when I was still doing it years ago, like, it, it can be very hard sometimes to want to over promise, in order to get the bid right, to get the job, you’re like, oh, I got to be cheaper or I’ve got to, you know, promise I can get it done quicker.

00;35;55;13 – 00;36;18;04
Speaker 2
And then you run into it and you can’t do it for the money, thought, or you can’t do it on the timeline. And, so how do you how do you. Especially on those big jobs, but really on any job, like how do you balance that with being able to, as you know, say like, hey, you know, I want the work, but I can’t do it for that amount of money and, you know, or I can’t hit that timeline, not, you know, maybe, but probably not.

00;36;18;04 – 00;36;22;17
Speaker 2
Like, how do you deal with those conversations?

00;36;22;19 – 00;36;41;03
Speaker 1
Well, you just gotta be honest about it. And you got to be willing to walk away if you’re not gonna be able to do it. And. And we’ve had to walk away from a lot of jobs that we really, really needed, but we knew that we weren’t going to be able to, you know, come through with what they were trying to make us agree to in the contract.

00;36;41;06 – 00;36;47;21
Speaker 1
And so we’d be like, all right, well then then then we can’t do it. You know, we’re not going to do it.

00;36;47;24 – 00;37;02;15
Speaker 2
Do you have to kind of because, you know, again, I know this is something that everybody struggles with and I don’t think it’s just in the trades. I think it’s any business. Right. Especially when you’re younger in your business, you know, those first five years and you know, you’re you got you got bills and you need the money coming in.

00;37;02;15 – 00;37;23;06
Speaker 2
And sometimes, you know, job opportunities are scarce. Like is it like what what is the stuff that helps people be able to do that, to be able to say like, hey, I really would love this job, but I can’t hit that timeline or I can’t hit that budget. Like, is it just your ethics? Is it your, you know, your morals?

00;37;23;06 – 00;37;30;05
Speaker 2
Like what? What is the stuff that gives you the strength to be able to make that call?

00;37;30;08 – 00;37;55;27
Speaker 1
I think it’s I think it’s, I think it comes from your reputation. I think I think, you know, you they have to know who you are. They have to trust you. I think I think it’s just having those relationships where you can go to them and be like, hey, you know, I can’t make that work, but this is what I can make work, and I actually really do need the job.

00;37;55;29 – 00;37;59;16
Speaker 1
And and,

00;37;59;18 – 00;38;22;00
Speaker 1
And just gaining gaming, having, having that trust and and having those relationships where we’re willing to negotiate and, and, and try to find a way to, you know, agree to something that we can make work. You know, one of the things that I mean.

00;38;22;02 – 00;38;44;14
Speaker 1
To get off the ground in a, in a time when there was no work, you know, we we agreed to do anything that there was, you know, I mean, we we, we did all kinds of different scopes of work, to take care of our customers. And, and we’d go to them and, or would be observant and say, look, this, this actually needs to get done.

00;38;44;14 – 00;39;01;29
Speaker 1
Do you have somebody to do that? We’ll do it. We’ll take care of it. We’ll have it. You know what one one of our values is that’ll overdeliver. And so we’re always looking at like where can we overdeliver? Where can we spend 15 minutes, you know, help clean up the job site. We’ll clean up somebody else’s mess. Not even our mess.

00;39;01;29 – 00;39;21;00
Speaker 1
How much does that really cost us? But then that jobsite superintendent, how much does he really appreciate that when he would have had to do it himself? And then he really wants us on his next job, and he’s willing to put his neck out on the line to, to help us get in and get that next job with him.

00;39;21;02 – 00;39;42;11
Speaker 1
And I think the those types of relationships and those, you know, us not being greedy, us being willing to give a little bit, go the extra mile for our customers at the end of the day goes a long ways. You know, there’s times when we’ve been jobs and and we’ve really screwed up and we’ve lost, you know, there’s, there’s multiple times where we’ve lost over $1 million on a job.

00;39;42;11 – 00;39;56;29
Speaker 1
But that was our agreement. And we’re going to eat it and we’re going to move on. And we’re, you know, we’ll have to make it up later, you know, and, and, and our reputation is more important than us screwing it up.

00;39;57;01 – 00;40;02;28
Speaker 2
What’s what’s the saying about reputation? It takes a lifetime to build and, just the moment to screw it up, right?

00;40;03;00 – 00;40;03;24
Speaker 1
Right.

00;40;03;26 – 00;40;09;18
Speaker 2
You know, I’m here in this pattern of relationships. Relationships sound pretty important. Denver.

00;40;09;21 – 00;40;11;27
Speaker 1
They are the paramount.

00;40;12;00 – 00;40;38;14
Speaker 2
Paramount. So. Well, speaking of relationships, let’s talk about, family business leadership. So your your brother Blaine is on the team. If I’m if I’m correct, along with a deep bench, you’ve got TJ Patterson and Brenda Townley. Crew leaders have been with you for years. You’re celebrating 18 years, which is obviously a great milestone. You know, longevity, sustainability and business are always a concern.

00;40;38;16 – 00;40;52;01
Speaker 2
I’m curious about, like, what’s one rule that keeps the family dynamic healthy inside the business? And what are you doing today to develop non-family leaders who think like owners for the next 18 years?

00;40;52;04 – 00;41;23;07
Speaker 1
I think it’s it’s it’s, treating everybody fairly, not not having favorites, not not letting nepotism be part of our, our culture, our our our our company. We’re still, we’re still, you know, everybody has to perform just because you’ve been here for, for, you know, 15 years. It doesn’t mean that you can slack off in that we’re we’re going to just tolerate, poor performance.

00;41;23;10 – 00;42;03;09
Speaker 1
And so, so I think, having that culture, developing that culture and, and, not not letting people just be here and slack off and not really provide value. I think that creates a culture where we’re, you know, we, we trust each other. People feel empowered. People. Yeah. I’m I’m the owner of the company, but, but I feel like the, the, the consensus around the company is this is our company.

00;42;03;17 – 00;42;13;06
Speaker 1
You know, we’re all kind of on orders here because this is our future, and this is a stability for us and our family, and this is the legacy that we’re building.

00;42;13;08 – 00;42;40;19
Speaker 1
And that and and that. And that comes back to what’s my behavior around all of this, right? Am I going around saying, hey, well, I’m the boss. You got to do what I say. You know, if if that was my behavior then then it would, it would, pull everybody back and, I would, I would lose all that leadership capital and and there would be a way different, environment around here.

00;42;40;22 – 00;42;54;08
Speaker 2
Do you is there like the situation where you bring on a new team member and they’re not taking ownership in that fashion? Like, how do you deal with that situation?

00;42;54;11 – 00;43;25;06
Speaker 1
I think is it’s, being really clear, by establishing the expectations, you know, just setting the expectations. And when the expectations aren’t getting met, then then having those conversations, as soon as possible. And, we’ve done it the wrong way a lot of times. So we’ve, we’ve, we’ve we’ve had to learn. We’ve had to learn and we’ve failed a lot of really good people that we didn’t set the expectations clearly up front.

00;43;25;09 – 00;43;43;25
Speaker 1
And they got so far off the rails that we couldn’t get them back on the rails. And I’ve, you know, got a lot of friends that used to work for me. And they’re still my friends that don’t work here anymore because it’s because we failed. Just because of that. Because because they didn’t adopt the right culture. They didn’t adopt the right mentality.

00;43;43;27 – 00;43;52;28
Speaker 1
They didn’t meet the expectations because I didn’t do a good job in explaining it, setting the expectations clearly up front.

00;43;53;00 – 00;43;56;17
Speaker 2
It’s interesting.

00;43;56;19 – 00;44;07;13
Speaker 2
Just thinking about team members over the years. And same thing, right? Like when when they’re failing is that are they failing or am I failing? And it sounds like extreme ownership. If they’re failing, it’s my fault. Right?

00;44;07;16 – 00;44;08;29
Speaker 1
So bad teams, only bad leaders.

00;44;08;29 – 00;44;13;01
Speaker 2
Yeah. That’s a tough pill to swallow sometimes I think.

00;44;13;04 – 00;44;15;09
Speaker 1
Yeah.

00;44;15;11 – 00;44;34;18
Speaker 2
All right, we’re guys. We’re going to, jump over to the YouTube exclusive portion. For those of you who are just getting used to this, we are doing our Patreon side of things before, but we really hate putting content behind the firewall, so we’re back to giving it away for free. And what that means is, if you are on YouTube, you don’t need to do anything.

00;44;34;18 – 00;45;01;15
Speaker 2
Stay right where you are. We’re going to continue with the show. If you’re listening on Spotify, Apple or Rumble, the what that means is you got to jump on over to our YouTube channel to, hear the next couple of questions. Please make sure you like, subscribe, do all those fun things, and, never before we jump over to the next portion here, if people want to learn more about you and they’re listening on Spotify or Apple, where do they where do they find you guys?

00;45;01;18 – 00;45;30;19
Speaker 1
Well, we’re we’re we’re in Phoenix. Our website is, Dagon construction.com. Don’t don’t really have much of a social media presence. We don’t do a great job at marketing. But but, they can they can, get on our website. They can, tell, you know, our emails are on the website.

00;45;30;19 – 00;45;35;10
Speaker 1
Email us, if if we can help anybody with anything, reach out.

00;45;35;12 – 00;45;49;27
Speaker 2
Awesome. Well, and I’ll say you, you may feel like you’re not doing a great job with marketing, but your website is beautiful, and, you’re doing pretty well business wise. It seems like without without any marketing. So you know what they say, if what you’re doing is we’re going to keep doing it right.

00;45;50;00 – 00;46;14;19
Speaker 2
All right, couple more questions, then we’ll let you, we’ll let you off the hook here. The adapt or die playbook adapted. Adapt or die is one of your six core values. Can you give us a specific example, a market shift client, last failed project or dig and had to adapt fast and the exact system or process change that came out of it?

00;46;14;21 – 00;47;06;22
Speaker 1
I think there’s a lot of there’s a lot of small things. You know, we have a well, we have a safety incident and then, you know, we adapt quickly. You know, we don’t ever want this to happen again. And those types of things trigger, you know, the need to, to adapt. I think, probably one of the biggest things, and it’s specifically for me was, was recognizing, the need to create leaders throughout the whole company and, and, but my philosophy is that, the company that creates the most leaders at the end of the day wins, and, and and, so we we have made a huge effort to,

00;47;06;23 – 00;47;34;08
Speaker 1
to, to promote leadership, to create leadership, to teach leadership to, to empower, our junior leaders to, to, be able to carry part of the load, part of the burden of leadership for the company. And, and, and I think that’s, you know, that’s that’s a big, big part for us, a big change for us that that has provided a lot of fruit so far, for us.

00;47;34;08 – 00;47;58;17
Speaker 1
But, you know, I think any of us are looking into the future and, and what’s, you know, what’s the future going to look like in a year or two years? Three years? You know, all we know is it’s going to be different than it is right now. And, and our ability to be able to innovate and adapt and, and and, you know, you guys started the podcast talking about I that’s that’s a huge one.

00;47;58;19 – 00;48;21;23
Speaker 1
That’s a huge one. How are we going to make sure that we’re using these tools? The best way possible. And we’re trying to play that game too. You know, I don’t have any good things to talk about yet about I. But but but, that our, our futures are very, very different, from, from where we’re at right now.

00;48;21;23 – 00;48;35;26
Speaker 1
And our ability to accept change and change and is, is, is is, is is are is is is the key to being able to to survive. Yeah. It is my I.

00;48;35;26 – 00;49;01;24
Speaker 3
Agree Denver one one question that I have and we’re I just had this conversation with two of our leaders today. So it’s it’s fresh in my mind. But when you brought that concept of everybody learning leadership principles to your field technicians, how did you get that to them and how did they respond to it?

00;49;01;27 – 00;49;08;18
Speaker 1
That this, this new generation coming up, is.

00;49;08;20 – 00;49;33;16
Speaker 1
They’re they’re like sponges. I mean, they want to be poured into and they’re very interested in leadership. They’re very interested in being successful in winning. And, and, you know, the old school construction of, hey, you just got to put in your time and you got to do you on the job, on the job, learn learning and, and and you got to just put in your time.

00;49;33;18 – 00;50;13;26
Speaker 1
It that doesn’t that doesn’t resonate with isn’t hitting next generation. They’re hungrier than that. And they want more than that. And so, we’ve had a great response from the young people of, of wanting to, to be be leaders, to learn leadership, to learn, discipline to, to to learn how to communicate more clearly to, to, to, to be able to create, bright future for themselves and their families and, and, you know, we’ve the, the leadership stuff that I’m doing right now is, is is voluntary.

00;50;14;01 – 00;50;44;07
Speaker 1
It’s it’s it’s not mandatory that everybody comes it’s it’s voluntary. They I do, I do classes in Spanish, one Thursday and then I do the same class again in English the next Thursday. And we get about we get about, 50, 50 people coming out each to each class, which is, you know, a little under half of the company that’s actually taking advantage of it.

00;50;44;09 – 00;51;02;23
Speaker 1
But but it’s just it’s just small steps, you know, it’s small steps. It takes a lot of time and it’s just a lot, you know, small steps at a time. And, those, those people who want it or participating and and learning and growing.

00;51;02;26 – 00;51;21;22
Speaker 3
The interesting to hear you put it that way, because the common misconception is that the younger generation doesn’t necessarily want to, to grow or or work or learn, but, you’ve kind of flipped that on its head and give them the opportunity. And, and they’ve taken to it. Very interesting.

00;51;21;24 – 00;51;24;22
Speaker 1
There are future. Yeah.

00;51;24;24 – 00;51;46;22
Speaker 2
And you talk about small steps like how did you get with the the training, the leadership training that you’re doing now. Like how did you put that into practice or how did you get started with that? Was it just like, hey guys, I’m going to start doing this. If you want to show up, show up and you get a couple of people in the beginning and then it grows or what did that look like?

00;51;46;25 – 00;52;29;05
Speaker 1
Yeah. So so we just finished our fourth year of of having it roll, you know, where we’ve done a curriculum and, and we’ve done it consistently. And each year we iterate significantly from one year to the next, trying to be more effective and do a better job. And, and, you know, the first, the first couple of years was, was more just the leadership, you know, project managers, superintendents, and, and and yeah, they were they were, they were understanding the concepts and learning the concepts and changing a little bit.

00;52;29;05 – 00;52;51;11
Speaker 1
But but it wasn’t really getting down to the front line guys at all, you know, and and then we just slowly, started opening it up and, and, and, and then this last iteration, I’ve decentralized it or I’m actually teaching table group leaders, before our meeting. We’re doing it. I’m doing a two hour training with table group leaders.

00;52;51;11 – 00;53;27;04
Speaker 1
And then for our meeting, they’re split up into tables of 5 to 6 people with a table group leader. And it’s actually the table group leader leading the discussion. And they’re doing the training, not me. All I’m doing is observing at that point. And that’s our iteration that we just finished up. Now to where, you know, I’ve, I’ve been able to decentralize that, to, to let other people do the training and, and the observing and and then next, this, this next, this next round, our fifth year, we’ll do a different a different iteration.

00;53;27;04 – 00;53;34;03
Speaker 1
You know, we’re still we’re still brainstorming on that and trying to figure it out. Oh it’s cool.

00;53;34;06 – 00;53;58;18
Speaker 2
Deborah, one more question for you. And then we’ll, you know, we want to respect your time here. I, you know, curious about. First of all, I think it’s amazing that you’re running this company and then doing your MBA at night. Right? Because that’s a lot of work and a lot of dedication. You know, to your earlier point about the why, you know, for, trades owner that’s weighing whether to go back to school or not, you know, while running their company.

00;53;58;20 – 00;54;17;21
Speaker 2
You know, I’m curious, what did you actually bring back that moved a number on your panel or changed how you run the company? You know, what did you. Was there a noticeable change from going back and getting the MBA? Or, you know, I don’t want to say waste of time because I don’t think education ever is a waste of time.

00;54;17;21 – 00;54;23;20
Speaker 2
But what you know, what what was was there a difference made from going to school?

00;54;23;22 – 00;54;44;13
Speaker 1
Yeah. Yeah. So, so so you know, obviously I learned a lot and it was very valuable. You know, I did an executive MBA where where we spent every other Friday and Saturday all day long in class. And then we did like group projects, during, during the, during the time that we weren’t in class, it was very demanding.

00;54;44;13 – 00;55;04;23
Speaker 1
It was very demanding of, you know, time for for two years, I was able to come back and the classes that we were taking, you know, were taking an accounting class, and I’m sitting down with my controller and we’re like, going through and I’m like, you know, let’s do this. And then let’s, let’s look at our overhead this way this time.

00;55;04;23 – 00;55;26;05
Speaker 1
Let’s, you know, and there’s a lot of things that came out where, you know, every week I was sitting down with my team and we were, you know, talking about a lot of the stuff that I was that that I was learning and, and, and, and it was, you know, it was super valuable for the team. But if I had to step back and say, what was the most valuable thing?

00;55;26;05 – 00;56;21;14
Speaker 1
I think it was an indirect effect of of me doing my MBA was I had to step out of the company significantly and, and empower other people to do a lot of the stuff that I was doing before. And, and, you know, brought rock store teams, my CEO and, and he, he stepped into that CEO position, back then when I was going to school and, and, built relationships, and, and and and took things to a place that I, I, I, I didn’t even have on my, all my radar and, and he was able to he was able to, he was able to, to help us continue to grow and and,

00;56;21;14 – 00;56;52;19
Speaker 1
and do a better job of building some strategic relationships with some customers that that really helped us in a, in a big way. That that, probably wouldn’t have happened if I was still trying to control everything. And so that indirect, that indirect, effect of me needing to step away a little bit and actually empower and trust so my junior leaders to step up and and fill that void, was super valuable for us.

00;56;52;21 – 00;57;14;19
Speaker 1
And, and then, you know, it was, it was going through school that I, that I found the extreme ownership and ran into that and, and, and, and then that’s, that’s really what’s, what’s, you know, that made the biggest difference in a in, in our culture and in our success.

00;57;14;21 – 00;57;17;28
Speaker 2
Yeah. So both direct and indirect benefits alone.

00;57;18;04 – 00;58;02;20
Speaker 1
Yeah. The, the negatives, you know, you know, if I had any regrets, you know, I, I think it was, the sacrifice I got five, I got five kids, and my family, my family, you know, sacrificed a lot for, for for me to be not present for a long time. And and those are those are key years for for my older kids that are now moved out of the house of, you know, events, activities, me being a bigger part of their lives, it was just a huge sacrifice where, you know, if I had to do it over again, you know, I’d stand back and really evaluate, you know, is it is

00;58;02;20 – 00;58;09;11
Speaker 1
it really worth giving that up at the end of the day? Yeah.

00;58;09;13 – 00;58;14;14
Speaker 2
Denver I, I can’t say thank you enough for coming on the show today. Man. This is great.

00;58;14;16 – 00;58;18;17
Speaker 1
Yeah. We appreciate it. Russian. Yeah I hope.

00;58;18;19 – 00;58;23;03
Speaker 2
I know as an introvert, I hope it was a little bit of fun for you, but,

00;58;23;05 – 00;58;27;12
Speaker 1
You could have fooled us. Yeah. Okay. Well. Thank you.

00;58;27;14 – 00;58;38;26
Speaker 2
Yeah. It’s great. Really appreciate you coming on. And, and talking to our listeners and and kind of letting them let them see under the hood or behind the curtain a little bit for what you guys are doing. So thanks again.

00;58;38;28 – 00;58;54;09
Speaker 1
Preciate it. Yeah. I appreciate what you guys do. Promoting leadership, promoting, you know, good good good values in, in, in, in contractors and business owners. And, we wish you guys, luck in all your endeavors.

00;58;54;12 – 00;59;16;18
Speaker 2
Thanks so much, man. Appreciate it. And of course, thanks, everybody for listening. You know, you can find us at our website, blue collar startup.io. Or you can watch, listen, YouTube, Rumble, Spotify, Apple. Make sure to like, subscribe, give us a glowing review please everybody. I think those those help in some way, shape or form, if anything just tells us that we have fans.

00;59;16;20 – 00;59;20;13
Speaker 2
Thanks everybody for listening. And one more time. Thanks, Denver. Appreciate it man.

00;59;20;15 – 00;59;48;13
Speaker 1
And that wraps up another episode of Blue Collar Startup. A big thank you to our sponsors, Five Towers Media, Daigle Cleaning Systems, Daigle Fire Solutions, The Michaels Group, Martin Electric, MLB construction, Pinocchio Construction People, and Catamount Consulting for making this podcast possible. And thank you for tuning in. If you learned something or felt inspired. Connect with us on our website at Blue Collar Startup Bio or email us at hardhat Dot CSU at gmail.com.

00;59;48;13 – 01;00;01;10
Speaker 1
We’d love to hear your questions and topic ideas. Help us spread the word by sharing the show and following us on social media for updates. Until next time, keep on building. Keep on dreaming and keep hustling like your future depends on it.

01;00;01;13 – 01;00;10;16
Unknown
Oh, hey. Oh!

01;00;10;18 – 01;00;11;24
Unknown
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